Thread:AndIWontPrayForYou/@comment-1777104-20160724033202/@comment-29251550-20160725000901

Floatingaxehead wrote: AndIWontPrayForYou wrote: SouthWriter wrote: I did not say you vandalised by posting, only that such an unsolicitated charge on a site can be viewed as such. You created a Forum to spew your rather caustic accusation on a site that nowhere claims such a thing.

No Christians I know or have read wish damnation upon the innocent. The whole idea of damnation is upon the guilty. If you have read the Bible through, rather than just picking out the parts you want to attack, you would know that there are no innocent people on the earth. Salvation is the act of rescuing those GUILTY individuals from the consequences of their wrong doings. Read the article on SIN to see what the Bible has to say about that.

Saved by Grace ,

SouthWriter (talk) 19:08, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

" You created a Forum to spew your rather caustic accusation on a site that nowhere claims such a thing" Not a place, people. " The whole idea of damnation is upon the guilty." If having different views makes you guilty, then I guess I'm as guilty as guilty can be, maybe even more.

" If you have read the Bible through, rather than just picking out the parts you want to attack" That is a stereotype, one that's not very clever, I might add.

" you would know that there are no innocent people on the earth" So I guess the person two streets away who never commited a wrong in his/her life isn't innocent, and I guess the newborn baby isn't innocent either, or any other children for that matter. Am I correct?

" Salvation is the act of rescuing those GUILTY individuals from the consequences of their wrong doings." That's not the point. The point is, most Christians believe anybody with different views than them will be condemned to Hell for all of eternity. "For all have fallen short of the glory of God" -Isaiah 59:2

I would rather not pretend there are any perfect people out there. If it wasn't for Jesus's sacrifice, the only place we would be going would be Hell, and we would forever be cut off from God. However, since he obviously wants us to be with him, he reached out by slaughtering himself in the form of Jesus on the Cross to pay for our sins.

And honestly, if there were perfect people, we would know about them. To assume even great characters like Ghandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. were "perfect" is a dangerous gamble.

You do not know what wrongs a person could have possibly committed throughout their lives, and for what guilt and shame they have gone through. Perfection was only achieveable for Jesus (since he was God, the word made flesh) and no other. Even those that seem to be exhalted in the Bible had some quirk or flaw, of which they were often documented.

Of course, only God would know when newborns would be able choose him or the world. We could pretend it would be an exact stage in the brain's developement, but that is going to far in promoting our entitled thoughts that we could possibly determine something only God [being by default all powerful] would determine.

As for the last part, that is one of the hardest things many Christians have had to cope with. A lot of them (myself included) actually want them to be saved. However, because of the conditions of their hearts, they could not possibly want to be with a God they find repellent, as you do. As a result, it pains many Christians to see people they love (agape, not lust)  and want to be saved turn their back on God, because rather than accepting [the grace that could be theirs] they follow what they (and I am sure you do, too) argue is their intuition that they do not need God, and even more dangerously, that God does not deserve them, which leads to being locked out of God's presence in Hell.

And the implications of the verse above are well accepted by many Christians worldwide. The term "no one's perfect" is not merely what it says; it understands the truth that all are guilty, all are sinful, and without the perfect sacrifice [Jesus] we would not even have a shot at escaping Hell and being with our Heavenly Father. If all that exists in Heaven is beautiful and good, certainly people, no matter their merit, must be washed clean of their sin and evil intentions before coming into the direct presence of the Lord. Of course, there is no way they will die in viewing his glorious presence here. I never said anybody was perfect. Did Jesus go to Hell for eternity after he was killed? No he didn't. So his sacrifice meant nothing. You're calling God perfect, but even he has his flaws, so what you said is pretty much hypocritical. Babies can't dedicate themselves to a cause. You can't dedicate yourself to something without comprehending it first. Have you seen what God has done in the Bible? Even if he does exist, is he really worth worshipping? Having a different opinion than somebody else doesn't automatically mean they follow a certain set of principles. Not everybody is born a Christian. In fact, none of us are born into a religion. We're all born secular. You don't need God to be a good person. The only power God has is the power you give him. How can you say God loves us when he casts those who disagree with him into Hell? Besides, a perfect God would know better than to come up with the concept of an afterlife. A perfect God would know that this would lead to mortals becoming afraid for themselves. Afraid for how they'd end up. Also, being secular doesn't automatically make you evil.